# Base Layer EP 03: Spencer Kimball on Governance Is the Real Blocker

[Listen now](/content/base-layer/spencer-kimball/index.html)

> [github.com/authzed/spicedb](https://github.com/authzed/spicedb) ★7015

## Sponsored Open Source Feature Development

With Netflix’s support, the AuthZed team pondered a Zanzibar-native approach to Attribute-Based Access Control. The requirements were captured and published as the [caveated relationships proposal on GitHub](https://github.com/authzed/spicedb/issues/386) for feedback from the SpiceDB community. The community’s excitement and interest became apparent through comments, reactions, and conversations on the [AuthZed Discord server](/content/discord/index.html). Clearly, Netflix wasn’t the only one facing challenges when reconciling SpiceDB with policy-based approaches, so Netflix decided to help! By sponsoring the project, Netflix was able to help AuthZed prioritize engineering effort and accelerate adding the Caveats feature to SpiceDB.

## SpiceDB Caveats

[SpiceDB Caveats](/content/docs/reference/caveats/index.html) allows Netflix to specify authorization policy to include system attributes. Instead of requiring the entire state of the authorization world to be persisted as relations, a system can have both relations and identity attributes used at authorization check time.

## Outcome

Netflix and AuthZed are both excited about the collaboration’s outcome. Netflix can employ another authorization tool and SpiceDB users have another option to perform rich authorization checks. Bridging the gap between policy based authorization and ReBAC is a powerful paradigm that is already benefiting companies looking to Zanzibar-based implementations for modernizing their authorization stack.

## See AuthZed in action

Build delightful, secure application experiences with AuthZed.

[Book demo](/content/schedule-demo/index.html)